[Fabrizio Carugati]

Let's discuss about Ferrari Classiche.

First of all I think it was a great idea to create Ferrari Classiche and I don't understand why they didn't do it before to protect the history of the brand.

Classiche can be very useful to confirm chassis number, engine, original colors and many other things.

Now there is some points I don't understand. Classiche should be a tool to protect the Ferrari heritage and avoid "fake" cars or help owners to have their cars as original as possible and provide history about them.

Now it seems that Classiche has been created more to make money than protect the history. Ferrari is a commercial brand and they don't have to make gifts but I think you can make money and protect your heritage.

A lot of people are now asking for Classiche Certificate but they might not realize that it doesn't make the car original at all.

Before Classiche existed you could have a "matching number" car (Chassis Number matching the Engine number) which is totally original. So you'd be able to sell it at the best value.

Then you could have a Ferrari 250 SWB or Lusso or whatever but without the original engine (for example a 250 GTE engine inside à SWB or a SWB engine inside à Lusso) because when these cars weren't worth the price they are now owners didn't hesitate to exchange engine when it was broken or sell it alone. So the value won't be as much as an original car.

Now if you don't have a matching number car Classiche can certified it "original" in their record if you buy a new 250 block from them (with a classiche stamp on it and USD 15'000 to pay if I remember well). 250 blocks are basically the same anyway.

So I'm asking myself isn't a 250 GTE engine block produced by Ferrari from the 60's inside à SWB more original than a brand new block produced by Ferrari Classiche ? Maybe it's just equal so what's the point to spend money to certified you don't have the original engine of your car ?

I think it would be better to certified the chassis as an original SWB, Lusso, ... and then certified the engine as original 250 GTE or whatever. It's part of the history of the car.

I think these certificate can help some people to sell car as original : "It is certified by Ferrari so it is correct".

I'm curious to know what you think about it.

[Boxer]

In general, I think the basic concept behind the Ferrari Classiche program is excellent. I have major issues with the way in which it is being executed. I was tempted to have my F40 certified until I was told that I would need to replace the custom freeflow exhaust it currently sports with an original Ferrari exhaust. The cost of buying the exhaust from Ferrari would have been more than the certification process fee. I was then told that I could switch them back as soon as the certification was completed. To me this is at best an expensive silly exercise that proves nothing beyond that on a certain date the car was outfitted with all the 'original' Ferrari equipment. Two year later, does this still have any value ? When I then found out that Ferrari would be willing to provide new original 250 engine blocks and then certify the car as original, I lost any interest in forking over money for a book of nice pictures of my car signed by Piero Ferrari. Great idea but the execution lacks intergrity.

[JazzyO]

This is quite disappointing to hear. A programme like this without integrity is pointless. I hope they realise that and make changes, but I suppose that is unlikely.


Onno

[212Export]

Originally Posted by Boxer

In general, I think the basic concept behind the Ferrari Classiche program is excellent. I have major issues with the way in which it is being executed. I was tempted to have my F40 certified until I was told that I would need to replace the custom freeflow exhaust it currently sports with an original Ferrari exhaust. The cost of buying the exhaust from Ferrari would have been more than the certification process fee. I was then told that I could switch them back as soon as the certification was completed. To me this is at best an expensive silly exercise that proves nothing beyond that on a certain date the car was outfitted with all the 'original' Ferrari equipment. Two year later, does this still have any value ? When I then found out that Ferrari would be willing to provide new original 250 engine blocks and then certify the car as original, I lost any interest in forking over money for a book of nice pictures of my car signed by Piero Ferrari. Great idea but the execution lacks intergrity.

I agree totally on the integrity factor. Personally I think that even a "non matching numbers" but "type number" correct engine from the relevant period is much more "original" than the "today's build" block, even if it comes directly from the Ferrari factory.

[Fabrizio Carugati]

Incredible example :

A owner of Ferrari 250 SWB California Spyder, with matching number, wanted to have a brand new 250 block because the original was getting porous so he asked Classische if he could buy a brand new Classische block to put in the car to drive it and keep the original safe.

The answer was yes to build a new block but only if the owner gave his original block to be destroyed by Classische.

Kind of astonishing, destroying your own heritage.

[Boxer]

It is yet another great example of what was a great concept being basterdized through both inconsistent and mindless execution.

[Granucci]

Originally Posted by Fabrizio Carugati

Incredible example :

A owner of Ferrari 250 SWB California Spyder, with matching number, wanted to have a brand new 250 block because the original was getting porous so he asked Classische if he could buy a brand new Classische block to put in the car to drive it and keep the original safe.

The answer was yes to build a new block but only if the owner gave his original block to be destroyed by Classische.

Kind of astonishing, destroying your own heritage.

There was a good reason as the owner, IIRC, wanted the same stampings.

The way this was handled, for today, IBelieve, is to give it a different stamping, which to anyone in that end would probably have little issue.

rik

[Lambo65]

It is all about money and EGO. As long as I own a good looking, excellent running Ferrari, I am grateful I own it. I do not care for mileage, some aftermarket parts, as long as it is mostly an original Ferrari that looks great and is dependable. New engine from Ferrari but needs to be for the correct car is fine with me too.

[Boxer]

As an example of how lost this idea has gotten, dealerships have quotes for number of certifications they must do every year. If they don't meet the quote, Ferrari hits them with a penalty charge.

[212Export]

Originally Posted by Boxer

As an example of how lost this idea has gotten, dealerships have quotes for number of certifications they must do every year. If they don't meet the quote, Ferrari hits them with a penalty charge.

This is sick !

[JazzyO]

Quotas for certification????

The next step. How long before official dealerships start refusing to service your pre 1990 Ferrari unless you have it certified? This is all starting to sound like the good old mafia to me. "Ey, paysan, jou wanna 'ave ya car certify - eez for ya own protection. Capisce?".

I think this is a big mistake Ferrari is making.


Onno

[Boxer]

Originally Posted by JazzyO

I think this is a big mistake Ferrari is making.


Onno

+1. The concept could have been great. The execution has been horrible.

[Fabrizio Carugati]

Originally Posted by Granucci

There was a good reason as the owner, IIRC, wanted the same stampings.

Then the answer of Classiche was correct. I didn't know that. Thanks

[Granucci]

Originally Posted by Fabrizio Carugati

Then the answer of Classiche was correct. I didn't know that. Thanks

Yup.

Ferrari is VERY aware of fakes and what 'some' owners may/can/do perform with blocks....

[Boxer]

Originally Posted by Boxer

+1. The concept could have been great. The execution has been horrible.

Hopefully now that Bahar has moved on, they will fix the execution.