[Lambo65]

Have a hard time justifying paying double the price of a regular 360 coupe for a Challenge Stradale. 360 coupes are selling for $80K-$95K and CS are going for $160K and up. Does the little extra horsepower the car has justify double the value?

[Gcalo]

And what is so interesting is, as I have before stated, the cars underneath are absolutely identical- shocks, springs, sway bars, etc.

The difference is slightly more HP and a few hundred pounds lighter.

Great marketing ploy indeed and folks fall for it.

No justification for 2X's the value!

With the new front springs I just put in my body lean and sway is considerably lower than a CS.

It's easy to upgrade a model for a few $'s.

[Lambo65]

Originally Posted by Gcalo

And what is so interesting is, as I have before stated, the cars underneath are absolutely identical- shocks, springs, sway bars, etc.

The difference is slightly more HP and a few hundred pounds lighter.

Great marketing ploy indeed and folks fall for it.

No justification for 2X's the value!

With the new front springs I just put in my body lean and sway is considerably lower than a CS.

It's easy to upgrade a model for a few $'s.

Glad you feel the way I do. I ask the same question to friends of mine and they look at me like I am an uneducated POS. They look at me like I do not appreciate art. I tell them I just cannot justify spending twice or more for a car that looks the same but it is a few hundred pounds lighter and has a little more power. I can get a 360 coupe and a 360 spider for the price of a lower mileage Challenge Stradale. I can install the stripes and get CS rims and strip the interior and install carbon fiber panels and nobody will be able to tell the difference.

[Gcalo]

Ferrari learned from GM-build a Cadillac out of Chevy parts!

I was quite surprised to realize the underpinnings are all the same. I was thinking of using the Challenge sway bay and lower shock bushings as I changed out my front springs!

Surprise they are the same as the modena, CS, and 430, and so are the springs, etc!

[Boxer]

Originally Posted by Lambo65

Glad you feel the way I do. I ask the same question to friends of mine and they look at me like I am an uneducated POS. They look at me like I do not appreciate art. I tell them I just cannot justify spending twice or more for a car that looks the same but it is a few hundred pounds lighter and has a little more power. I can get a 360 coupe and a 360 spider for the price of a lower mileage Challenge Stradale. I can install the stripes and get CS rims and strip the interior and install carbon fiber panels and nobody will be able to tell the difference.

A gentlemen in the UK effectively built a 360 CS Spider this way. Bought all the parts and fitted them to a base 360 Spider.

I beleive Angelis might have the details.

[Mike430]

Originally Posted by Lambo65

Glad you feel the way I do. I ask the same question to friends of mine and they look at me like I am an uneducated POS. They look at me like I do not appreciate art. I tell them I just cannot justify spending twice or more for a car that looks the same but it is a few hundred pounds lighter and has a little more power. I can get a 360 coupe and a 360 spider for the price of a lower mileage Challenge Stradale. I can install the stripes and get CS rims and strip the interior and install carbon fiber panels and nobody will be able to tell the difference.

Originally Posted by Boxer

A gentlemen in the UK effectively built a 360 CS Spider this way. Bought all the parts and fitted them to a base 360 Spider.

I beleive Angelis might have the details.

Hi guys, here is the link to that Challenge Stradale Spider that Angelis posted...

360 CS Spider

[stradale-man]

Originally Posted by Gcalo

And what is so interesting is, as I have before stated, the cars underneath are absolutely identical- shocks, springs, sway bars, etc.

The difference is slightly more HP and a few hundred pounds lighter.

Great marketing ploy indeed and folks fall for it.

No justification for 2X's the value!

With the new front springs I just put in my body lean and sway is considerably lower than a CS.

It's easy to upgrade a model for a few $'s.

Goodness where did you get this information from? The 360 is miles away from a Stradale, my friend! The 360 does not have the same suspension, brakes, ground effects, wheels, tires, engine parts, interior parts, the list goes on and on! There is NO comparison between the stradale and the 360. The CS is a true drivers/racers car, while the 360 is a nice boulevard cruiser! As to the 430 vs. the CS I have had both and I traded the 430 for the CS (the 430 was a spyder to boot). Never looked back. The CS is the finest and prettiest Ferrari to be built in the last 30 years (with the exception of the F40).

Check out the differences between the CS and the 360 on Fchat postings and get back with me. MONSTER differences! Lets start with the ceramic brakes, then proceed on to the ground effects, body changes, carbon fiber interior, faster F1 trans shift times, etc. etc.

I have DRIVEN and owned both the 430 and the 360 before I got my CS. If you like Ferraris (and want to drive them like ENZO wanted them driven) then the CS has it by a mile. Don't trust me - go see for yourself!

Best Regards

David

[Gcalo]

Not miles away at all. You think it is.

The cars are 100% identical underneath.

The differences are the CC brakes, slightly diff exhaust, slight increase of HP, about 200 lbs less weight.

You believe what you want. I have the parts books and deal with these daily.

Ferrari has done a great job of convincing people the cars are vastly different.

Reality is they are not!

[Gcalo]

Originally Posted by Boxer

A gentlemen in the UK effectively built a 360 CS Spider this way. Bought all the parts and fitted them to a base 360 Spider.---

That is 360Trev of England.

He did a fine job of converting his standard car to a Stradale.

The bulk of his work centered upon removing the items in the Modena not found in the CS to lighten up the car, highly tweeking the ECU, hot exhaust, and increased MAF sensors.

[stradale-man]

Originally Posted by Gcalo

Not miles away at all. You think it is.

The cars are 100% identical underneath.

The differences are the CC brakes, slightly diff exhaust, slight increase of HP, about 200 lbs less weight.

You believe what you want. I have the parts books and deal with these daily.

Ferrari has done a great job of convincing people the cars are vastly different.

Reality is they are not!

Really.

Then how do explain the differences in the diffusers? (the entire bottom of the car). Lets start with that one... The downforce is 50% greater between the cars. To quote EVO - a leading performance car magazine, the Challenge Stradale at 240 KM/H produces the same load as the 360 does at TOP SPEED! This was done while maintaining the SAME drag coefficient as the 360. Double the downforce - the same drag - sound like the same parts?

Then how about this difference - the titanium dampener springs, wheel bolts, and connecting rods. Find THOSE in your 360 parts book!

There is more when you are ready!

David

[stradale-man]

The rear glass is exchanged for Lexan to lighten the car. The door panels are carbon fiber. The weight difference is over 350 lbs.! New bumpers, rear and front lips, redesigned drivers seat, carbon fiber engine bay,,, on and on.

I believe the market has decided what the values are.

Best Regards,

David
Stradale lover ( and 360 lover as well...)

[Gcalo]

Originally Posted by stradale-man

Really.

Then how do explain the differences in the diffusers?

It's plastic and the under pans are the same P/N's but the rear diffuser is different. Cosmetic

Originally Posted by stradale-man

Then how about this difference - the titanium dampener springs, wheel bolts, and connecting rods.

Springs are not titanium. They are steel and are the same as the 360 and the 430. So are the shocks, sway bars, etc.

wheel bolts are not "under the car"

[stradale-man]

Originally Posted by Gcalo

It's plastic and the under pans are the same P/N's but the rear diffuser is different. Cosmetic




Springs are not titanium. They are steel and are the same as the 360 and the 430. So are the shocks, sway bars, etc.

wheel bolts are not "under the car"

I would assume you have more to do with your time than to be pedantic, but maybe that's a poor assumption on my part.

I do not know why you are so defensive. I like 360's - I used to own one. I am merely stating my opinion (based on first hand knowledge and ownership) that the 360 and the CS are miles apart.

By the way the diffusers are not "plastic"

Why do you insist on insulting my car?

[Gcalo]

Let me point out to you that this site was not established to encourage individuals such as you to demean the knowledge of members who know well about what they speak.

You have clearly demonstrated your complete lack the knowledge of the differences of a Challenge car and a Stradale!

You would be well armed in life to first know well about what you speak and, second and more importantly, to know the capability and qualifications of your adversary!

[stradale-man]

Originally Posted by gcalo

let me point out to you that this site was not established to encourage jack asses such as you to show the extent of their ignorance or to demean the knowledge of members who know well about what they speak.

You have clearly demonstrated your complete lack the knowledge of the differences of a challenge car and a stradale!

You would be well armed in life to first know well about what you speak and, second and more importantly, to know the capability and qualifications of your adversary!

You would be best to find those. Your attitude will not be welcomed here.

have you driven a stradale???

[stradale-man]

Or how about these changes?

Three key features distinguish the Challenge Stradale. First, in the quest to improve performance, the car is about 200 lbs. lighter than the 360 Modena due to weight saving materials, such as carbon fibre, as well as removal of selected creature comforts. Second, the driving experience is rawer, due to less sound insulation, for example in the wheel wells, and stiffer suspension. Third, the Stradale’s unique exhaust system emits a “banshee wail” under wide open throttle that’s truly exhilarating. The CS sounds as close to F1 racing as one might imagine, especially if street-legal hyperflow cats are installed.

In addition, a whole range of specifics differentiate the CS from the 360, including;

Front bumper
Rear bumper
Rear diffuser
Side skirts
Underbody tray (50% lighter than Modena)
Lexan back window with Carbon Fiber grills
Lexan side windows optional outside US
Windshield (purportedly is different than Modena)
Titanium lugs on the wheels
Titanium springs
Carbon Fiber door panels, sills, center console
Carbon Fiber seat shells
Carbon Fiber intake filter boxes
Carbon Fiber mirrors
Carbon Fiber panels (water shields) in engine compartment
Gas lid with polished cavallino
CCM brakes
19" Challenge style wheels
Pirelli Corsa tires
Low back pressure exhaust
Launch Control
Mass air flow sensor
Valve spring positioning
Claimed special engine component selection, machining and polishing
New engine and F1 transmission mapping firmware
Extra 90 kg of down force at 295 km/h with the same Cd
Used to homologate the 360GT race car
Different steering wheel
No carpets, internal sound control, no wheel-well insulation


Performance on Street & Track:

While the horsepower wars march on, the Challenge Stradale retains supercar performance largely due to its relatively high horsepower (425HP) to low weight ratio (2800lbs). As an article put it in, Evo 2009, ‘Ferrari’s engineers made the Stradale feel like a race-car for the road’. And it’s particularly well suited to short tracks with lots of tight turns.

Test data convey;

0-60 times, 4 seconds, as confirmed by Car & Driver, 2006
¼ mile time: 12.1 seconds with Launch Control activated, 12.4 without Launch Control
Lap times by Stig at Top Gear Track: 1.22.3 for CS, 122.9 for 430, and 1.19.7 Scuderia
Lap times at Hockenheim short track: 1.13 for CS, 1.127 for 430, 1.103 for Scuderia,
Ferrari tests at Ferrari’s own Fiorano test track;
-- Ferrari Scuderia, 123.9
-- Ferrari Enzo (2003), 1.24.9
-- Ferrari 599GTB, 126.5
-- Ferrari 360 Challenge Stradale 1.26.5
-- Ferrari Scuderia Spider 16M, 126.5
-- Ferrari F50, 127.0
-- Ferrari F430, 1.27.0
-- Ferrari F430 Spider, 127.0
-- Ferrari F40 1.29.6
-- Ferrari 360 Modena 1.31.0 (5 seconds difference for the same car? How did they DO it?)
-- Ferrari 575M Maranello 1.31.5
-- Ferrari 550 Maranello 1.32.5
-- Ferrari 355, 134.0

Your turn

[io sono tifoso]

Originally Posted by stradale-man

The rear glass is exchanged for Lexan to lighten the car. The door panels are carbon fiber. The weight difference is over 350 lbs.! New bumpers, rear and front lips, redesigned drivers seat, carbon fiber engine bay,,, on and on.

I believe the market has decided what the values are.

Best Regards,

David
Stradale lover ( and 360 lover as well...)

dude i am sorry but gcalo has a point, it is not 350 lbs lighter, it is 243, and i have seen the seats in countless 360 modena and spiders, it was an option for the racing seat. and yes the engine bay was different, but you can do that yourself. take a look here: 360 CS Spider

i will not argue that the car you own is amazing, and yes it is faster than a 360 modena, but merely a couple more tenths faster 0-62, and 3 or 4 miles per hour on the top speed. your car would be faster around a track than the 360 modena. but no need to get mad.


From Wikipedia:

Challenge Stradale
The Challenge Stradale is a more track day focused car than the Modena, it was inspired by the challenge racing series and can be thought of as a Challenge car for the road. Ferrari engineers designed the car from the outset with 20% track day use in mind and 80% road use. With only a small 25 bhp (19 kW) improvement in engine power from the Modena but with substantially improved power to weight ratio, the Challenge Stradale accelerates from 0 to 100km/h (62mph) in just 4.1 seconds.
In total, the CS is up to 110 kg (243 lbs) lighter than the standard Modena if all the lightweight options are specified such as deleted radio, lexan side windows and fabric cloth (instead of the leather option). As much as 94 kilos (207 lbs) was taken off on the bodywork by stripping the interior carpets, lighter weight bumpers, carbon mirrors and the optional Modena carbon seats becoming standard. The engine and transmission weight was slimmed down 11kg (24 lbs) through the use of a smaller, lighter weight sports (yet still stainless steel) exhaust back box and valved exit pipes.
There are a lot of subtle (and some not so subtle) styling differences between the Challenge Stradale and the standard Modena.
These include;


[edit]VISUAL DIFFERENCES
19" BBS Challenge Styled Alloys with Titanium wheel bolts
Large Diameter Carbon Ceramic Brakes
Carbon-fibre side mirrors
Updated front and rear bumpers
Pair of rear bumper diffusers
Sharper side skirts
Plexi-glass rear window
Lower ride height on Titanium springs
Lighter weight challenge grille (black metal mesh) made from Aluminium
Challenge Stradale badging on rear grille
Optional Tri-colour Racing Stripe
The car also had the optional carbon racing seats (available in 3 sizes, small, medium and large) which are noticeable from the outside to complement the interior detailing

[edit]INTERIOR DIFFERENCES
New instrument dials with a yellow rev counter and carbon fibre surround
Carbon Fibre door panels
Carbon Centre Console
Fabric Dashboard with deleted stereo and glovebox
New Steering wheel with optional coloured racing ring
[edit]Dimensions
Overall length: 4477 mm (176.3 in)
Overall width: 1922 mm (75.7 in)
Height: 1199 mm (47.2 in)
Wheelbase: 2600 mm (102.4 in)
Front track: 1669 mm (65.7 in)
Rear track: 1617 mm (63.7 in)
Curb weight: 1180 kg (2601 lb)
Fuel capacity: 95 L (25.1 US gal)
[edit]Performance
0–100 km/h (62 mph): 4.1 s[3]
Top Speed : 300 km/h (186 mph)[3]
downforce: about 270 kgf (2.6 kN) @ 300 km/h (without rear wing)
lift/drag: about -1.1:1

[stradale-man]

Originally Posted by io sono tifoso

dude i am sorry but gcalo has a point, it is not 350 lbs lighter, it is 243, and i have seen the seats in countless 360 modena and spiders, it was an option for the racing seat. and yes the engine bay was different, but you can do that yourself. take a look here: 360 CS Spider

i will not argue that the car you own is amazing, and yes it is faster than a 360 modena, but merely a couple more tenths faster 0-62, and 3 or 4 miles per hour on the top speed. your car would be faster around a track than the 360 modena. but no need to get mad.


From Wikipedia:

Challenge Stradale
The Challenge Stradale is a more track day focused car than the Modena, it was inspired by the challenge racing series and can be thought of as a Challenge car for the road. Ferrari engineers designed the car from the outset with 20% track day use in mind and 80% road use. With only a small 25 bhp (19 kW) improvement in engine power from the Modena but with substantially improved power to weight ratio, the Challenge Stradale accelerates from 0 to 100km/h (62mph) in just 4.1 seconds.
In total, the CS is up to 110 kg (243 lbs) lighter than the standard Modena if all the lightweight options are specified such as deleted radio, lexan side windows and fabric cloth (instead of the leather option). As much as 94 kilos (207 lbs) was taken off on the bodywork by stripping the interior carpets, lighter weight bumpers, carbon mirrors and the optional Modena carbon seats becoming standard. The engine and transmission weight was slimmed down 11kg (24 lbs) through the use of a smaller, lighter weight sports (yet still stainless steel) exhaust back box and valved exit pipes.
There are a lot of subtle (and some not so subtle) styling differences between the Challenge Stradale and the standard Modena.
These include;


[edit]VISUAL DIFFERENCES
19" BBS Challenge Styled Alloys with Titanium wheel bolts
Large Diameter Carbon Ceramic Brakes
Carbon-fibre side mirrors
Updated front and rear bumpers
Pair of rear bumper diffusers
Sharper side skirts
Plexi-glass rear window
Lower ride height on Titanium springs
Lighter weight challenge grille (black metal mesh) made from Aluminium
Challenge Stradale badging on rear grille
Optional Tri-colour Racing Stripe
The car also had the optional carbon racing seats (available in 3 sizes, small, medium and large) which are noticeable from the outside to complement the interior detailing

[edit]INTERIOR DIFFERENCES
New instrument dials with a yellow rev counter and carbon fibre surround
Carbon Fibre door panels
Carbon Centre Console
Fabric Dashboard with deleted stereo and glovebox
New Steering wheel with optional coloured racing ring
[edit]Dimensions
Overall length: 4477 mm (176.3 in)
Overall width: 1922 mm (75.7 in)
Height: 1199 mm (47.2 in)
Wheelbase: 2600 mm (102.4 in)
Front track: 1669 mm (65.7 in)
Rear track: 1617 mm (63.7 in)
Curb weight: 1180 kg (2601 lb)
Fuel capacity: 95 L (25.1 US gal)
[edit]Performance
0–100 km/h (62 mph): 4.1 s[3]
Top Speed : 300 km/h (186 mph)[3]
downforce: about 270 kgf (2.6 kN) @ 300 km/h (without rear wing)
lift/drag: about -1.1:1

See above posting.

David